And hows that working out for you?See23 wrote: Im in it for the chicks and money!
Thoughts on the new 200 treadwear rule?
Re: Thoughts on the new 200 treadwear rule?
Re: Thoughts on the new 200 treadwear rule?
Not so good.spigot52 wrote:And hows that working out for you?See23 wrote: Im in it for the chicks and money!
Regarding running in another class because you don' t have 200TW:
I wouldn't want that to happen. I would just like there to be a limit on how far into the season and at what events you can run lower TW rating tires under last years class rules.
Instead of dragging this thread out can we look at real compromises and solutions?
Feel. Don't think.
Re: Thoughts on the new 200 treadwear rule?
Well ..... since certain people like to read.....here is the actual explanation of treadwear ratings.
UTQG Treadwear Grades are based on actual road use in which the test tire is run in a vehicle convoy along with standardized Course Monitoring Tires. The vehicle repeatedly runs a prescribed 400-mile test loop in West Texas for a total of 7,200 miles. The vehicle can have its alignment set, air pressure checked and tires rotated every 800 miles. The test tire's and the Monitoring Tire's wear are measured during and at the conclusion of the test. The tire manufacturers then assign a Treadwear Grade based on the observed wear rates. The Course Monitoring Tire is assigned a grade and the test tire receives a grade indicating its relative treadwear. A grade of 100 would indicate that the tire tread would last as long as the test tire, 200 would indicate the tread would last twice as long, 300 would indicate three times as long, etc.
The problem with UTQG Treadwear Grades is that they are open to some interpretation on the part of the tire manufacturer because they are assigned after the tire has only experienced a little treadwear as it runs the 7,200 miles. This means that the tire manufacturers need to extrapolate their raw wear data when they are assigning Treadwear Grades, and that their grades can to some extent reflect how conservative or optimistic their marketing department is. Typically, comparing the Treadwear Grades of tire lines within a single brand is somewhat helpful, while attempting to compare the grades between different brands is not as helpful.
So why did they pick treadwear ratings to determine what qualifies for SCCA street classes? It's a simple number for the general public to understand.
Why 200 TW? No particular reason other than that is what several of the common road racing series use. It's also far enough away from R-compound territory that a manufacturer can't slide in a race tire. 140 TW was too low when you consider several road race compunds are 100 TW.
I'll wait until we get some more opinions, but I think I have a solution that everyone can agree to.....
UTQG Treadwear Grades are based on actual road use in which the test tire is run in a vehicle convoy along with standardized Course Monitoring Tires. The vehicle repeatedly runs a prescribed 400-mile test loop in West Texas for a total of 7,200 miles. The vehicle can have its alignment set, air pressure checked and tires rotated every 800 miles. The test tire's and the Monitoring Tire's wear are measured during and at the conclusion of the test. The tire manufacturers then assign a Treadwear Grade based on the observed wear rates. The Course Monitoring Tire is assigned a grade and the test tire receives a grade indicating its relative treadwear. A grade of 100 would indicate that the tire tread would last as long as the test tire, 200 would indicate the tread would last twice as long, 300 would indicate three times as long, etc.
The problem with UTQG Treadwear Grades is that they are open to some interpretation on the part of the tire manufacturer because they are assigned after the tire has only experienced a little treadwear as it runs the 7,200 miles. This means that the tire manufacturers need to extrapolate their raw wear data when they are assigning Treadwear Grades, and that their grades can to some extent reflect how conservative or optimistic their marketing department is. Typically, comparing the Treadwear Grades of tire lines within a single brand is somewhat helpful, while attempting to compare the grades between different brands is not as helpful.
So why did they pick treadwear ratings to determine what qualifies for SCCA street classes? It's a simple number for the general public to understand.
Why 200 TW? No particular reason other than that is what several of the common road racing series use. It's also far enough away from R-compound territory that a manufacturer can't slide in a race tire. 140 TW was too low when you consider several road race compunds are 100 TW.
I'll wait until we get some more opinions, but I think I have a solution that everyone can agree to.....
Re: Thoughts on the new 200 treadwear rule?
Good info.
I can't wait.
Tell us your solution and then we can give you an opinion.
I can't wait.
Tell us your solution and then we can give you an opinion.
Feel. Don't think.
-
angryturtle
- Street Prepared Class
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:51 pm
Re: Thoughts on the new 200 treadwear rule?
I had the option of choosing tires with 140 TW rating when they were legal. I didn't because because based on the few tire comparisons out there on light weight cars and wanting a more substantial tire for the weight of my vehicle. I found the tire worked well and was very competitive even against cars with 140 TW tires. I still would not race a 140 TW tire even if it was legal.
If it is true that tires that were once 140 TW are now rated as 200 TW without any change in the compound then this means that it doesn't matter what the TW is at least between 140 and 200. Nothing has changed from a competitive point of view. The only real problem is if you are going to race at venues that follow the letter of the rule. I see no point in worrying about the rule here. Those who want to race at Pitt Meadows or Packwood will have to follow the new rule if they want to be competitive there.
The drivers that are the most competitive here are the ones most likely to race in venues that follow the rule. Therefore, it is most likely that the competitive drivers are going to have to be on 200 TW tires anyway. If a competitive driver on 200 TW tires races here against a driver on 140 TW tires chances are the driver on the 140 TW is somewhat less competitive (at least once the current 140 TW tires are worn out) and the competitive drivers needn't worry, especially if there is no real difference in the tires any way. If the 140 TW tire does happen to give an advantage to the less competitive driver, the more competitive driver on 200 TW can just consider that a bit more of a challenge perhaps equivalent to a PAX difference to help less competitive drivers be more competitive. If one of the more competitive drivers chooses to run a 140 TW at the eliminator this year to try and gain a supposed advantage, then they have to live with that because I am not going to worry about it.
If it is true that tires that were once 140 TW are now rated as 200 TW without any change in the compound then this means that it doesn't matter what the TW is at least between 140 and 200. Nothing has changed from a competitive point of view. The only real problem is if you are going to race at venues that follow the letter of the rule. I see no point in worrying about the rule here. Those who want to race at Pitt Meadows or Packwood will have to follow the new rule if they want to be competitive there.
The drivers that are the most competitive here are the ones most likely to race in venues that follow the rule. Therefore, it is most likely that the competitive drivers are going to have to be on 200 TW tires anyway. If a competitive driver on 200 TW tires races here against a driver on 140 TW tires chances are the driver on the 140 TW is somewhat less competitive (at least once the current 140 TW tires are worn out) and the competitive drivers needn't worry, especially if there is no real difference in the tires any way. If the 140 TW tire does happen to give an advantage to the less competitive driver, the more competitive driver on 200 TW can just consider that a bit more of a challenge perhaps equivalent to a PAX difference to help less competitive drivers be more competitive. If one of the more competitive drivers chooses to run a 140 TW at the eliminator this year to try and gain a supposed advantage, then they have to live with that because I am not going to worry about it.
Does refusing to go to the gym count as resistance training? 
Re: Thoughts on the new 200 treadwear rule?
So my vote is that we allow racers to use up their 140-199tw tires up at the beginning of the season up until the halfway mark of the season.
Re: Thoughts on the new 200 treadwear rule?
...and not for phallic trophies? c'mon, let's be honest here...See23 wrote:Im in it for the chicks and money!
Interesting debate going on here -- IMHO, for this season, it doesn't really matter at the local level. I would think there would be minimal, if any, advantage to running old 140s vs. new 200's. If the opinion is that there is, there is always the option to go buy a used set of 140's. Oh, btw, I have some RS3s in 140TW sitting in garage not being used. Not a self-serving post either!
-- from the moderator and owner of Burtch Chiropractic and Kelowna Laser Therapy
(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)
Re: Thoughts on the new 200 treadwear rule?
I gave up on that dream at the end of last season.mcsinc wrote:...and not for phallic trophies? c'mon, let's be honest here
(I had to look up the word "phallic" to make sure it wasn't a... you know!)
Last edited by See23 on Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Feel. Don't think.
Re: Thoughts on the new 200 treadwear rule?
Still like to see Brains solution but in the mean time I second that.riceracer wrote:So my vote is that we allow racers to use up their 140-199tw tires up at the beginning of the season up until the halfway mark of the season.
Feel. Don't think.
Re: Thoughts on the new 200 treadwear rule?
You know, like I mentioned before, it doesn't matter with all the variables...tires, car set-ups, weather, pavement conditions, the layout of the brilliant courses by Brain (& Riceracer), how much sleep we had the night before race day including too much sex, not enough, whatever!riceracer wrote:So my vote is that we allow racers to use up their 140-199tw tires up at the beginning of the season up until the halfway mark of the season.
My vote is we allow racers to continue using the tires they have to burn up this season including the Eliminator! I was on 200 TW last Season while others were on 140 TW. Did it make a 'huge' difference on my final standings? Not really that much (except tenths of PAX behind you guys!)
Will it be much different this year? Probably not, because I'll need new tires...